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Subordination has been and still is a controversial subject within the church. The concept has been vigorously debated in relation to the doctrine of the Trinity since the fourth century. Certain New Testament texts have made it part of discussions of right relations between men and women. In recent years these two matters have been dramatically brought together. Indeed, today the doctrine of the Trinity is being used to support opposing views of the right relationship between men and women in the church. At the center of the debate is the question of whether or not the orthodox view of the trinitarian relations teach the eternal subordination of the Son of God. In this book Kevin Giles masterfully traces the historic understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity from the patristic age to our own times to help resolve this important question. But he does not stop there. Giles goes on to provide an illuminating investigation of a closely related question--whether or not women, even in terms of function or role, were created to be permanently subordinated to men. By surveying the church's traditional interpretation of texts relating to the status of women and inquiring into the proper use of the doctrine of the Trinity, Giles lays out his position in this current debate.
- Sales Rank: #1371292 in Books
- Color: Multicolor
- Brand: Brand: IVP Academic
- Published on: 2002-08-10
- Original language: English
- Number of items: 1
- Dimensions: 9.02" h x .65" w x 5.98" l, .98 pounds
- Binding: Paperback
- 282 pages
Features
- Used Book in Good Condition
Review
I have to first commend Giles on his breadth of research. I found many of his arguments for the egalitarian position to be extremely well reasoned and persuasive. I also found his distinction between complementarians refreshing and helpful. I can recommend this work without hesitation to anyone engaged in the gender debate. (Nick Norelli, Rightlight Dividing the Word of Truth, February 25, 2008)
"Kevin Giles's The Trinity and Subordinationism is an important book on historical theology and contemporary hermeneutics. Some contemporary evangelicals are embracing the ancient heresy of the eternal subordination of the Son to promote their case for the eternal subordination of women, much as nineteenth-century conservatives promoted a biblical 'justification' of slavery. Giles argues that just as historic orthodoxy rejected the eternal subordination of the Son, and recent orthodoxy rejected slavery, so contemporary orthodoxy must reject the eternal subordination of women. Significant is his discussion of how changes in culture must inform biblical interpretation while not determining interpretation." (John R. Kohlenberger III, co-editor of The NIV Bible Commentary and The NIV Exhaustive Concordance)
"Kevin Giles does three things in this volume: (1) He shows with powerful argumentation that to speak of subordination of the Son to the Father in the trinitarian relationship is to repeat the error of Arianism. (2) Those who advocate the hierarchical-complementarian view of womanhood, as well as the supporters of the egalitarian-complementarian view, may well build a case with apparent support of some texts of Scripture, but the main current of Scripture, Giles avers, favors the latter, while the former is, unconsciously perhaps, influenced by a dominant presupposition of the inferiority of women, derived from a social context rather than from the Bible. (3) In the case of the propriety of slavery, the supporters did build a strong case on the basis of some Scripture texts, but fortunately the profound unethical nature of slavery is so evident that hardly any believer in Scripture would advocate a support of slavery in our times. This is a tightly reasoned volume with a true mastery of relevant texts and a solid argument against any subordination in the Trinity and for the biblical egalitarian-complementary view of womanhood." (Roger Nicole, Reformed Theological Seminary (Orlando, Florida))
"Kevin Giles, in this significant book, has simultaneously made valuable contributions to four fields of study: historical theology, hermeneutics, systematic theology and the practical life of the church. While many will not agree with him at all points, all can profit from a careful reading and interaction with his arguments." (Millard J. Erickson, Distinguished Professor of Theology, Western Seminary, Portland, Oregon)
"Kevin Giles powerfully shows how the doctrine of the Trinity has been used to justify ideologies that diminish the worth of women. Some of his allegations may be open to question, but they nevertheless merit serious consideration." (Donald G. Bloesch, Professor of Theology Emeritus, Dubuque Theological Seminary, and author of the series Christian Foundations)
About the Author
Kevin Giles (Th.D., Australian College of Theology) is an ordained Anglican minister who was in parish ministry for forty years. He has studied in Australia, England and Germany, publishing broadly on topics such as the doctrine of the church, leadership in the apostolic age, the equality of men and women, the Trinity and congregational life. Giles has contributed numerous articles to scholarly journals, and to IVP's Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels and Dictionary of the Later New Testament and Its Development. Among his books are What on Earth Is the Church? and Patterns of Ministry Among the First Christians. He has also served as a minister and consulting theologian for World Vision Australia. Giles and his wife Lynley have four grown up children and nine grandchildren. They live in Melbourne, Australia.
Most helpful customer reviews
11 of 12 people found the following review helpful.
What's God got to do with it? The equality of women
By Ilona
I would categorize the book's framework as tri-partite in format covering three related issues: (1) Theology of the Trinity, (2) Women, subordinate or equal?, and (3) Slavery, as Church theology has dealt with it and how it relates to gender theology. It uses a two-pronged approach to the arguments, one based within the Athanasian formula of "overview" exegesis and the second based upon the idea of cultural change requiring scriptural interpretation change, or what I term an "evolutionary" view of interpreting scripture. This two-pronged approach was submitted early on, in the introduction, but it wasn't until the final chapters which dealt with Slavery, that I understood better how Giles explains his application of the evolutionary, or cultural, form of argument. I still felt it was the much weaker manner of arguing the issues, especially for someone like me. And I basically disagreed with the premise, but additionally, I felt Giles took a facile manner of dealing with this form, as if it was self-evident truth. I would debate that, but in the further development of his ideas I could see a platform of agreement in the argument that as time progresses more of God's intent is unfolded, and gives greater understanding. Rather than an unvarnished promotion of "things are different now, and that forces us to re-interpret scripture" which is how I tended to read his line of thinking earlier in his formation of the presentation.
But in commenting further upon these two ways of arguing hermeneutics, I believe Athanasius' formula of "overview" is best for dealing with application of scripture to society's dilemmas. If following the watershed path of theological outcomes in society, strict protocols constraining women leads to a society in variance with Bible principles of freedom and equality. Handling those principles will be key in unlocking the correct approach to understanding God's Word on women.
Giles view on "cultural" evolution and force is very weak, not usable 'as is', since it depends on relativism.The idea that Christian principle once accepted within general society results in a juggernaut which cracks open wrong thinking and exposes injustice is plausible, but believing that society moves along as a force in itself, self-propelled without a cause for the ideas source? I believe in cause and effect, and so cannot embrace this culture evolution, as stated. It is framed as a theory that culture so changes that old ideas don't fit or hold up to present understanding, and thus "forces" a change in the Church and its hermeneutics.
The subject matter is weighty when a books emphasis is theology, as might be expected. It isn't light summer reading on the beach. Since the first part of the book, the concept of the Trinity, dealt primarily with theological terms, history, and study, it took much attention and concentration from a reader, such as I am, who does not ordinarily study uncut theology. Besides the fact that the Trinity is a difficult topic for the best of theologians! Giles handled it well, and thoroughly. Of course, I am biased towards the Athanusian "overview", which I call "principle", exegesis for the truly thorny doctrinal arguments, which Giles submitted with overwhelming rationale. This portion was just my cup of tea, well laced with historical references and well written in almost a story form. Not at all dry.
As the book,'The Trinity & Subordinationism', progresses it becomes clear that Giles is arguing the egalitarian side of the gender debate, although I wasn't sure until he expressed it more clearly half way through the book. This is probably due to the careful submission of the two sides, egalitarian and hierarchal views. Although he does use a rebuttal style, which tips his hand, whenever dealing with the hierarchal-subordination based books such as Piper's 'Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood: A Response to Evangelical Feminism'. By the end of the book Giles is quite forthright in his conviction of the egalitarian stance.
Giles weak 'culture arguments' did the egalitarian stance no favors in my estimation. I think that is just the bias of those who hold to primarily egalitarian theological views holding sway. They think it wipes away the oppositional view of hierarchical subordination. I don't agree, and hope to submit my own ideas on where hierarchy fits with a strongly egalitarian view of women. But this book introduced a side of the issue which many of us categorize separately: slavery.
Giles doesn't spend a lot of time on this, but what time there is is well spent making the case for how deluded even the best theologians often were on this issue. I think the history on this and the woman issues were the most enlightening for me. To pay attention to the actual theology of past times when there were still serious arguments about the humanity of people upon the basis of their gender and race. We shouldn't forget, and should appreciate how far we have come on some of these social issues. It is both discouraging and encouraging. That the church could promote some of the ideas it has- discouraging.... that it was instrumental in getting on the right side of the issues- encouraging.
I think the book is an important one, and lifts the gender discussion to the higher level it needs, outside the emotional mudpit it is often found in.
*this is an edited version of a review posted on my blog
29 of 39 people found the following review helpful.
Excellent, elegant, erudite, encouraging, egalitarian
By Kim A. Pettit
This book is great! It is divided into three sections: 1) a discussion of the Trinity, hierarchicalists ' claims that there is eternal subordination within God, and a review of the historical church's position; 2) a discussion of the church's historical view of women, followed by chapters that show that hierarchicalists and egalitarians both depart from the historical position, and 3) a discussion of slavery and how the historic position is legitimately repudiated today, and how this parallels the women's issue debate, and how the way that Athanasius and Augustus handled the issue of the Trinity provides the methodology evangelicals need now to get beyond prooftexting, without dismissing the Bible but upholding its authority, to decide theological issues like this one in our age and culture.
With charity and humor, Giles lucidly and effectively skewers subordinationist and hierarchical arguments. At the end, he expresses his sincere delight in the way that God used Giles' study of these matters to broaden his understanding of what it means to do theology. Inspirational!
Giles is extremely well-read and the book has extensive footnotes and author and Scripture indices. The first section is weighty reading, especially if you are not used to reading theology, but definitely worth it, after that the rest of the book is easier. The book also includes a helpful appendix on homosexuality. The chapters on the Reformers view of the Trinity, the one on the novelty of the hierarchical position on women today, and the one on the "biblical" case for slavery particularly stand out. After reading the book I definitely felt better intellectually, emotionally and spiritually prepared to defend my own understanding of Scripture, recognizing my own fallibility and the grace I (and we all) daily receive as imperfect interpreters of God's word to us today. The book was a marvelous, concise course in Trinitarian theology and in hermeneutics, with two great case studies to hammer points home.
Every egalitarian who wants to be well informed about how to answer Grudem, Piper et al's claims that relationships between men and women should image the "eternal subordination" supposedly found in the Trinity should read this book.
3 of 5 people found the following review helpful.
Great Insight
By Michael Terran
This is a Great Book. It's very deep and goes into alot of Church History.I saw Mr. Giles speak on the Trinity when he was here in Illinois! He was very nice to meet and very smart on scripture and Church History, he knows his stuff.People who are in the neg. about this book are not rightly dividing The Word of Truth. They only want to see what they want to see instead of letting the Bible speak for itself!
The book takes the "Whole" of scripture into account as well.Doctrine is not make on One bible verse but on the "Whole" of Scripture.This is very well researched and I really Highly recommend this book for your Library or Church Library too! The Bible saids to "test all things, hold fast to the good." and Mr. Giles does and we should too. His other book is "Jesus and The Father" which is another great book to have! We as Christians have to Contend for The Faith like never before these days. I really learned alot from his books and it's all based on Facts and True Church History! I like how he (Brother Kevin Giles) words things just the right way to drive home the message! This book is a great tool and takes you right into The Holy scriptures and it's all in Context. God Bless you all and the Truth does set one free thank you Jesus (Jesus Is Lord)Amen!
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